arsene york-hunt
12:07 Sat Dec 24
Re: Do you believe in God?
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""Serious theists don't resort to invoking God for those things they can't explain. ""
Isn't the whole invention of God or Gods to explain what people don't understand?
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Mike Oxsaw
8:25 Fri Dec 23
Re: Do you believe in God?
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vilasecammer 1:52 Thu Dec 22
I can happily live with those gaps - I don't need them "explained away".
In fact, all of humanity has lived with bigger gaps in knowledge for far longer - from way before organised religion rocked up - and got on just fine & dandy,
You might like to say you know everything, but you don't actually need to do so to have a successful and fulfilling life.
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WHU(Exeter)
2:56 Thu Dec 22
Re: Do you believe in God?
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we know that there are things that we know, that we don't know.
Or summink
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vilasecammer
1:52 Thu Dec 22
Re: Do you believe in God?
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Oxsaw wrote ..".the trend in the advancement of science has removed the need for the action of a deity in many areas of the universe."
This is an often repeated misundestanding of theism, at least of serious forms of theism. Serious theists don't resort to invoking God for those things they can't explain. Discovering more about how the univese works doesn't squeeze God out of the debate. We don't have a god of the gaps. Rather our appeal to God is based on what we do know, not what we don't know. For example we know about causality and we know about intelligence behind information. God, then, becomes the best explanation.
You'll find more god- of- the- gaps talk among materialists who will admit the difficulties in explaining, for example, the origin of the universe but invoke future materialistic findings that "one day " will explain what on their premises, is presently unexplainable.
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BRANDED
11:01 Thu Dec 22
Re: Do you believe in God?
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Common ground or common knowledge is the starting point of communicating with strangers. God and religion would always have been a starting point, along with food and trinkets. Perhaps birds, beer and footy. Language. Stars. Bla bla bla. I think it was Cook who was astounded that South Sea Islanders were naked and sexually very liberated. He then went snd tried to convert them to Christianity the nutter.
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Mike Oxsaw
8:40 Thu Dec 22
Re: Do you believe in God?
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Disagreement is fine - it (can) lead to a healthy debate from which we may all learn something.
Humans have an issue with not having an explanation for absolutely everything - if they lack knowledge about a particular subject "God's will", or God working in mysterious ways" is often rolled out as a discussion terminator.
It's fine - even beneficial for the human race to not know everything (OK so everyone in class laughs and points at you) but the trend in the advancement of science has removed the need for the action of a deity in many areas of the universe.
That's not to say people can walk away from social organisations - a few generations ago a church was the only place (local) news was passed on; social media fills in some of the news passing but not the human interaction.
We (still) need more questions & questioners, not fewer. I don't know if there is a god or not (I lean towards the not side) and that not knowing is no problem (for me).
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Keep dreaming
6:50 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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The greatest story ever told...
Worth a view
https://youtu.be/FN0pd_8yTLU
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vilasecammer
6:29 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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Oxsaw ... I'm not sure if we're agreeing, or not. I agree that people can find all kinds of fellowship within and without religious contexts. You may remember that we got talking about social groups because I said getting religion is not just about improving your hopes for the afterlife. It can in some ways improve your earthly life. I suppose you're saying that there are secular equivalents to these benefits, which may be true.
Unfortunately you went on to add two snipes at religion so I'll respond.
Your characterisation of the religious context as "magicking a "god" into existence" is what we're debating in this thread. Do believers just make Him up, or have good reasons for their creed? I've been arguing for the latter. Not magicking.
You then (randomly?) declare that Bethlehem etc. never were/will be centres of the good. My response to that is that if you believe the gospels and know the One at their centre, you see things very differently. Again, we're back to disagreement, I suppose.
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Mike Oxsaw
1:56 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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vilasecammer 1:49 Wed Dec 21
Exactly - scores of social groups around the world managed to handle death - and a possible afterlife - without the need to magic a "god" into existence.
Bethlehem/Nazareth/Jerusalem never were, and never will be, the centre of the world/all that is good.
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vilasecammer
1:49 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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You're right, That is one of the positives of belonging to religious groups. My point is that the story about the Inuit seems to me to imply that the only benefits of religious affiliation have to do with the afterlife.
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Mike Oxsaw
1:39 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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vilasecammer 10:20 Wed Dec 21
The benefits come from socialising, as humans are naturally social animals.
A "god" seems to have become a common point within these groups about which to talk, but that is no proof of his/her/their existence - could equally well focus on the price of milk.
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BRANDED
11:49 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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It might have been they were practicing anal sex to avoid getting pregnant but that somehow the cum got up her vag?
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vilasecammer
11:36 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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The point here is that the Virgin Birth refers to the birth of Jesus as it's taught in the Bible and the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's birth, as taught by Roman Catholicism. The Bible is silent on this issue.
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gph
11:30 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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"Immaculate conception means Mary conceived without sin. It refers to her soul not her virginity."
is ambiguous. Do you mean that she was without sin when she conceived?
In which case, what about original sin, the idea humans are sinful by virtual of being human (most Christians believe in this nonsense)?
Or do you mean there was no additional sin in the conception itself?
Which implies a good fuck, even one using no means to prevent pregnancy, is sinful. Unless any common and garden conception is also "immaculate".
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vilasecammer
10:20 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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This story, Mike, is wrong on all kinds of levels from the Christian point of view. Apart from implying that the unreached are guaranteed a place in heaven (which is debatable)...
-it assumes that the heaven/hell thing hinges on belief in God's existence.The Bible (James 2 19), though, points out that even satan believes and, therefore, that is not the key.
-it assumes the only reason for believing is to avoid hell and that , if it wasn't for the heaven/hell thing, we'd all be happier without God. This is also false as there could be any number of benefits of belief in God in this life (alongside the admitted difficulties), as most believers will tell you
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Willtell
10:13 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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Wils 12:51 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
Willtell
Immaculate conception means Mary conceived without sin. It refers to her soul not her virginity.
You're not understanding the basics of what you are raging against
-------------------------------------------
You're wrong again Wils. Firstly I'm not raging about anything. I'm talking about how ridiculous the Virgin Mary story is.
Secondly I understand what I'm debating very well as you know.
Thirdly you are typical believer that walks away rather than admit your strongly held beliefs are misplaced...
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Hammer and Pickle
9:29 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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How about just saying sorry and doing a honest days work making cheese or something?
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Coffee
9:18 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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else
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Hammer and Pickle
8:39 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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"Immaculate conception means Mary conceived without sin. It refers to her soul not her virginity."
Our it could be a great way of guilt-tripping millions of innocent, vulnerable girls for centuries through a whole load of gaslighting and absolute twaddle.
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Mike Oxsaw
8:20 Wed Dec 21
Re: Do you believe in God?
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There's an old story of an Inuit asking of a missionary, "Father, if I am unaware of God and therefore don't believe he exists, will I go to hell?"
The missionary replies "No, my son, if that were the case, you would not go to hell".
After a short pause, the Inuit responds "Then...why did you tell me about him?"
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